Face Off (1997)

Whitey (0:00): The beauty in the curse of a podcast like Born to Watch is that we get to rewatch the movies from our younger days and then discuss them. Most of the time, this is fun, but sometimes just occasionally a movie like Face Off comes along and doesn't just rock the apple cart, but tries to cause a 10 car fully convinced that our memories in general are seen through very rose colored glasses. And in 1997, I remember quite clearly that I thought FaceOff was an incredible groundbreaking blockbuster from the action movie master of Eastern cinema himself, John Woo. How face up holds in 2026, we're about to find out. Twenty nine years later, and my rose covered glasses are filed in the bin.

Whitey (1:14): G man, how are you, mate? I'm good. Did you say discuss or discussed earlier on in there? Just wanted to clarify

Unknown Speaker (1:22): Well no real reason.

Whitey (1:23): You can take it any way you want. Hear it any way you want to.

Gow (1:27): I I definitely have changed know, I wear prescription glasses now. They're definitely not rose colored.

Whitey (1:31): Mate, like Will said it best when we did Hard to Kill. You weren't here for that. But he did say that he's now firmly convinced that all the movies he liked as a kid are shit. And I don't a 100% prescribe to that theory, but I do believe our memories are tainted somewhat in some instance.

Gow (1:56): Yeah. They definitely are. I mean, maybe your taste change. Maybe you just get older. I don't know.

Gow (2:01): We weren't exactly kids when came out.

Whitey (2:04): 97. Like, we're, you know, we're sort of young men. Young men? You are I think you might have been traveling in '97.

Unknown Speaker (2:13): Oh, end of '97 year, Morgz are gearing up for travels. Yeah. Ninety six grand final win, me and Damon. Yep. Yep.

Gow (2:18): Whitey and Morgz banded on the hill. Yep. Oh, on the hill, in the stand. Stand. For the ninety six grand final team, thirty year anniversary this year.

Gow (2:26): But, yeah, '97 was gearing up to go. They just left in October, November. Yeah. Okay.

Whitey (2:33): It's just yeah. Twenty nine years ago, watching this feels fifty years ago. And I wonder whether I wonder whether all movies of the nineties, especially that late nineties, this is the real blockbuster era where everything is super exaggerated and super over the top, and this could be the cherry on top. Yeah. Anyway, g man, '97 movie, 29 years old.

Whitey (3:04): Overs and others, I've said of seven, and I think it could be high. Do remember first seeing it?

Gow (3:11): I don't remember. I remember being big. I remember wanting to see it. Whether we watched together, you'll probably tell me. But yeah, I remember it came out.

Gow (3:18): It was big. It was a blockbuster, and we were dying to see it. Obviously, Travolta was big. Yeah. Think Cage was having his comeback, I guess, around then.

Whitey (3:28): Well, he's having his cagescence.

Unknown Speaker (3:30): Yes. That's

Whitey (3:30): He's he's sort of coming back.

Gow (3:32): But look, I might be under seven, but close to that, I'd say.

Unknown Speaker (3:37): Yeah. I watched it

Unknown Speaker (3:37): a few times. I haven't watched it in a long, long time.

Unknown Speaker (3:40): Yeah. Yeah. Look, mate. I'm tipping we I saw it at the movies. I'm tipping we saw this at the movies.

Whitey (3:46): Yeah. I reckon this would have been this was like peak footy season. It came out in the middle of the year. Yeah. Middle of footy season.

Whitey (3:52): I reckon that we would have seen this at the movies. I don't remember seeing it in the movies, but it's Was hoist? Was it a hoist? It definitely would have been a ring a molar. Look, I'm I think I'd be hovering around the seven.

Whitey (4:05): Yeah. I I have not I have not seen face off in full. If it's twenty I reckon it's gotta be fifteen years at least. At least I've not seen it in full. I'd say probably more.

Gow (4:19): Yeah. I long, long time. I mean, it's two hours, It's twenty it's a big investment. Big investment.

Unknown Speaker (4:24): It's too big an investment. And fairly certain the investment may not be made again.

Unknown Speaker (4:30): No. I don't think investment pays off. No.

Whitey (4:32): It doesn't pay. It's definitely not the Wolf of Wall Street kind of pink sheet investment.

Speaker 2 (4:36): No. Or is it? Depending on who you are.

Whitey (4:39): If you're Jordan Belfort, then maybe if you're the buyer of the pink sheet, maybe not. G man, why don't you tell us about face off?

Gow (4:48): Alright. Got a couple of taglines for you. In order to catch him, you must become him.

Whitey (4:54): I actually don't mind that tagline.

Unknown Speaker (4:55): Yeah. It should. And it's like looking in the mirror, only knocked.

Whitey (5:01): What about at the end when he's in the room of mirrors? Yeah. I cucked out loud. I go, can there can it be any more ostentatious and, like, in your face, obvious? Any more symbolism that John Woo could throw in.

Unknown Speaker (5:12): Fucking hell.

Gow (5:13): It's just full on. Like the amount and it's in my bad. The amount of face slides that they do, it's just so over the top. Like, get it, the movie's called Face Off and you do it once, but like, I don't think I've ever greeted my kids or my wife and walked up and slid my hand down their face.

Unknown Speaker (5:29): It's it's it's an archer thing. Like, it's the archer thing. Like, you'd have

Unknown Speaker (5:32): something you do at home

Whitey (5:34): Yeah. That is uniquely going. Yeah. It might be the worm orchestra in the lounge room. Good to But there'd be something uniquely I'm not sure what my one is for the but there's generally something you do uniquely as a family.

Whitey (5:45): I think

Unknown Speaker (5:46): if I slip my palm down my face, she'd probably punch me in

Unknown Speaker (5:48): the head. I've got no doubt she would. I've no she'd be like, what are you doing?

Unknown Speaker (5:51): A fiery redhead wouldn't cop that.

Unknown Speaker (5:52): No. She wouldn't. I thought she was blonde.

Gow (5:57): All right. FBI agent Sean Archer knows how to stop elusive terrorist Castor Troy. He'll become him. Archer undergoes a futuristic surgery and has Troy's face mapped onto his, then infiltrates the terrorist world to discover his deadly secrets. But as much as Archer looks and acts like Troy, he doesn't really know him.

Gow (6:16): He never figures Troy will retaliate and force doctors to transform him into Archer. Now the agent faces a shattering nightmare. His archrival is living with his family. The Travolta Cage star power comes on strong and so does the excitement in this roaring thrill machine of a movie. So buckle up, it's going to be a furious fight.

Whitey (6:38): I don't think I've ever been more bored in an action movie.

Gow (6:44): I think that that's off the DVD cover. That's as boring as the movie. That's as bad as the movie.

Whitey (6:50): I've got a lot of questions. I'm gonna save them. Yep. Save them. Question time is is lengthy.

Unknown Speaker (6:55): Question time put together a lot of questions knowing that you would put together

Whitey (6:57): all the I've got a substantial amount of questions, but I'll tell you what. What I did this year oh, this year. What I did this episode is I found a trailer that was actually on the VHS release of Copland. You know, when you have you know, hire a movie and they'd have coming soon trailers before the movies. This one was on the Copland release.

Whitey (7:18): So here it is because the the actual trailer official trailer for this just really has music. That's about it. So here's the VHS trailer. Face off.

Unknown Speaker (7:34): To catch the world's most dangerous killer

Unknown Speaker (7:38): You have lived and breathed cast of joy for years.

Unknown Speaker (7:40): Do you think that I want to do this?

Unknown Speaker (7:43): Sean Archer took on his face.

Unknown Speaker (7:46): But when the killer took on his

Unknown Speaker (7:49): Wee, you licked. Things really got personal.

Unknown Speaker (7:52): See anything you like?

Unknown Speaker (7:54): Now everywhere they go

Unknown Speaker (7:55): You're Sean Archer. I guess I'm caster fraud.

Unknown Speaker (7:59): Ow. And every move they make

Unknown Speaker (8:01): I didn't love you so damn much, I'd have to kill you.

Unknown Speaker (8:03): What a predicament.

Unknown Speaker (8:04): Will bring them closer

Unknown Speaker (8:05): You can't get back what you've taken from me.

Unknown Speaker (8:08): Oh, well. Let's just kill each other. To the ultimate base off.

Unknown Speaker (8:18): John Travolta.

Unknown Speaker (8:20): You're not having any fun. Nicolas Cage. Alright. Just break your heart. Face

Unknown Speaker (8:29): off now on video. Wow.

Whitey (8:36): The the cop boat at the end made me laugh out loud. Yeah. There's so many things. It it's just it it almost felt like what more can we add to this to make it more exciting? And almost everything they did actually made it more boring.

Gow (8:53): Yeah. This is a movie that John Woo has said that the the studio basically didn't get involved with like because they didn't get in it. Like, maybe they should have. Maybe you needed some Well, I

Whitey (9:05): think some people need some restraint. Yeah. Some people need some restraint. John Woo, definitely one of them.

Unknown Speaker (9:11): This was really he really set it up as like, I think this is gonna be his his Everest. Well, kind of thing like this is his first

Whitey (9:18): this is his first western movie, though? Like, Face Off, I think it is. He did Hard Target. Okay. That's right.

Whitey (9:23): So he did Hard Target with with John Claude. Yeah. I think this was his real first blockbuster. Right?

Gow (9:29): He'd he'd done a few other movies.

Unknown Speaker (9:32): He's done a lot of Asian

Gow (9:33): movies with with Chow Yun fat. It's one of his favorites.

Whitey (9:36): I actually watched Hard Boiled about two months ago, and it's really good. Right. Like, really good. It's so similar to this, though. Like, you can see and I've never talked about it in film school for if wits about wooisms.

Whitey (9:50): Yeah. That's his thing. That's his sort of

Gow (9:52): trademark though. Yeah. Certainly has a style that he he stays with.

Whitey (9:56): Yeah. It's it's it's it's definitely his style. Loves a few doves. Oh my god.

Unknown Speaker (10:01): Church doves. Church doves.

Whitey (10:03): No. Apparently, church doves. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get there.

Whitey (10:09): Critical thinking. Now IMDb rates face off 7.3 out of 10. Certified fresh 93% on the tomato meter and 82% on the popcorn meter. It's very popular.

Unknown Speaker (10:31): Is that At from at the time though? Like, I mean, it was a blockbuster. I get that. Like,

Whitey (10:37): he did some serious cash. We'll get to that. 93%. Wow.

Gow (10:42): What's that up with? Tell tell me

Whitey (10:44): So let's let's look at let's look at 7.39 DB. Right? Firstly. The guard. We did this last week because because I'll tell you what was on what did we what movie did we do last week?

Unknown Speaker (10:59): I can't fucking remember. I wasn't here. It was No. It was Poltergeist. Poltergeist.

Whitey (11:05): So Poltergeist is in this. So it's the guard, speed, dumb and dumber, the karate kid, national lampoons vacation, Rocky two, sexy beast, enemy of the state, gremlins, starship troopers, and Jerry Maguire.

Unknown Speaker (11:19): Wow. There's some good

Whitey (11:19): movies Not good movies. There's fucking great movies there. And it probably doesn't deserve to be in that echelon of film.

Gow (11:28): No. I don't think so. If if you gave me that list to pick someone you wanna watch, face off, like, there's some good ones

Whitey (11:34): to watch before that. Yeah. It's it's tragic. I'm just gonna tell you 93 on Rotten Tomatoes. Let's have a look here.

Whitey (11:45): Goodfellas, Star Wars, Back to the Future, Alien, Rocky, The Empire Strikes Back, Mad Max two, No Country for Old Men, Logan, and FaceOff. They are all legitimate blockbusters.

Unknown Speaker (12:12): Yeah. Now Logan Logan's the outlier in that because it's not.

Unknown Speaker (12:16): Right? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (12:17): No. It's a good movie. It's good movie. But it's not in those echelon, but neither is Face Off. Mate, it's it's That's that's high praise.

Whitey (12:23): They're high praise. It's almost like they've turned they've gotten to 11. They've turned off all reviews on it. Yeah. It's not good.

Unknown Speaker (12:31): It's not good.

Gow (12:31): Wow. I would never have thought that.

Whitey (12:33): A couple of reviews, g man. Which one first?

Unknown Speaker (12:36): Let's go with the bad.

Whitey (12:37): The bad? Eugene Novakov from Film Blather. After seeing this numbing action flick, I'm still stumped what all the hype is about. So many critics and viewers around the country marveled at this movie, but for what? It's not a horrible movie, but it certainly isn't very good.

Unknown Speaker (12:56): That's fair.

Unknown Speaker (12:57): It might be horrible.

Gow (13:00): Yes. But I can get if you wanted to go and you wanted to watch a blockbuster and

Unknown Speaker (13:04): it's It's well made. It's a big screen movie.

Gow (13:06): Yeah. Lots of lots of blowing up, lots of action, lots of things going on. So I can understand that people would enjoy that in in a cinema.

Whitey (13:14): Okay. Alright. Initially. Good review. Stephen Hunter of the Washington Post.

Whitey (13:22): Almost indefensibly violent. The film is one of those whirly gigs of wit, barbaric energy, blood spatters, and firepower that will be adored by the morally retarded among us. Like me. And loathed by the morally superior. Wow.

Whitey (13:40): Morally retarded. I've never seen those those two words put together so far on Born to Watch. No. That's what we hear. We like to bring the heat.

Whitey (13:47): That's right. So, yeah, interesting views there. Ordinary people.

Gow (13:56): Let's run quickly through because we've talked about these guys. We've had movies. We've gone through Travolta and Pulp Fiction. This was he was sort of making a comeback here too. I mean

Unknown Speaker (14:05): Yeah.

Gow (14:05): He's he had the lean run. I mean, he came out came out strong in the early eighties. Late seventies, early eighties, Staying Alive, Grease, all of those. But then had that lean run through the eighties, then came back with Pulp Fiction, got his best actor nom.

Unknown Speaker (14:23): And then became a superstar again.

Gow (14:25): Yeah. Get Shorty, Broken Arrow phenomenon, and then Michael, and then into Face Off. Yeah. So this is sort of right at sort of the

Unknown Speaker (14:34): I mean, in the middle. He's back.

Unknown Speaker (14:36): Right? He's back and he's a he's a huge actor. Yep. The general's daughter after that, then he hits us with Battlefield Earth and that's where I think the wheels start to fall off.

Whitey (14:44): One of the worst the the worst scenario experience of my life, Battlefield Earth?

Unknown Speaker (14:48): Yeah. I've I've watched part of it and I was like It's tragic.

Unknown Speaker (14:51): Woah. It's tragic. But

Unknown Speaker (14:53): look, he's he's had some big hits. He's he's a big star.

Whitey (14:56): Look. Married to Kelly Preston, a very high ranking Scientologist, a very interesting man. A pilot. He was a Qantas ambassador. He was you know, he's he's lived a very interesting life.

Gow (15:12): He's got mate, he's got in his house, he's got, like, the planes. Looks like a garage where they come over and they just he parks them by the house.

Whitey (15:17): Yeah. So he's pretty cool. Very secretive. There's been many rumors about John Travolta for many years.

Unknown Speaker (15:23): Lots of rumors.

Whitey (15:25): Nothing has been completely confirmed. You know who I do like him as? Chili Palmer. Get Shorty is one of the greatest underrated movies ever. We should do that soon.

Unknown Speaker (15:34): Yeah. Be cool. He's in Chili Palmer again.

Unknown Speaker (15:36): Not maybe not as good as Get Shorty. It's not as good as Get Shorty, Get Shorty is really funny. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (15:41): Very, very good movie.

Unknown Speaker (15:41): Really funny. And I like him in that role.

Unknown Speaker (15:44): He does that really well. In fact,

Unknown Speaker (15:45): he does a good bad guy.

Gow (15:46): I I like him as a as a

Whitey (15:49): The thing I like about him in Chili Palmer is a little bit reserved. Yeah. Whereas I think when he plays the bad guy, he's that heightened over he's really sliding into overacting. Yeah. He you're exactly right.

Whitey (16:02): And I think even in this where he's trying to play that when he's trying to play another character, even when he's even when he's Sean Archer before he changes, it's really he's really pushing the needle. I think especially in those

Unknown Speaker (16:16): first scenes in the in when he's in the office with the star.

Unknown Speaker (16:19): Oh my god.

Unknown Speaker (16:20): It's I was sort of taken aback going, oh, he's a bit over the top.

Whitey (16:23): I feel it's manufactured. I'm gonna talk a bit about that in in good, bad, ugly.

Gow (16:27): See, in swordfish, I liked his bag. I think he was too over the top in that because I liked that. Yep. But you're right. In as Chili Palmer, he's a little bit little bit less than

Whitey (16:34): Little bit understated. He's a guy that he's the cool guy that has all the answers, but it's still a little bit out of his depth. Yeah. You know, he wants to get into films, but he's you know, I think it's one of his best characters. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (16:47): It's a great movie.

Gow (16:48): Yep. Oh, look. Nick Cage, we've had him on. We've done The Rock. Not a bad movie.

Whitey (16:52): The Rock was fun. The Rock's a better a much better movie than Face Off. Yes.

Gow (16:59): Yes. I like The Rock. Very similar vein. Similar vein, high action, large explosions, but a good storyline. Yeah.

Gow (17:05): But look, you know, again, he was coming back, honeymoon in Vegas sorry, leaving Las Vegas in '95.

Unknown Speaker (17:10): Windsor Academy Awards, man.

Gow (17:11): Windsor Academy Award, best actor best actor, then into the rock, and then Con Air. So again, hits face off. So you got two superstars, two big names at the high.

Whitey (17:21): So we've also done Con Air and Con Air I enjoyed watching Con Air again. Yeah. Con Air is good. I think, again, do you think this movie might take stuff a little too seriously? Yeah.

Whitey (17:33): It does. Because Con Air is a little bit tongue in cheek. It it knows what it is. It's having a bit of fun with itself. Whereas I think this I think this is part of the problem that it can't poke fun of itself.

Whitey (17:46): It it even though it's sort of trying to, it

Unknown Speaker (17:49): it just doesn't The the premise is too difficult. Like, you know, listen, Connie, you're right. They're on a plane. They're taking these Yeah. That's a fairly straight storm.

Gow (17:57): This is a lot different. Like, we're switching bodies, switching faces. There's a whole mutation. We're gonna take the face off. Terrible.

Gow (18:11): Now look, there was quite a few different people that were for this. Originally, they wanted Arnie and Sylvester. Unbelievable. Yeah. Imagine they were in it.

Gow (18:19): That's different. John Woo decided that he wanted John Travolta and Nick Cage. The script actually ended up with Michael Douglas at one stage because it was written in '91 by who was it? In '99 by Joel Silver. Yep.

Gow (18:38): Oh, sorry. It was first optioned by him. Yeah. And he came into Michael Douglas's lap, then he wanted to get they the the studio wanted him and Harrison Ford to be in it. Okay.

Gow (18:48): Interesting. And then that didn't happen. Douglas took over as executive producer, and then he eventually the roles obviously went to who they are now. But there was a few other people, I think, that were involved in that. Bruce Willis, Ali Baldwin, Jean Claude Van Damme.

Unknown Speaker (19:01): Effectively any of the nineties heartthrobs. Yep. Steven Seagal. John imagine if this was Jean Claude

Unknown Speaker (19:06): And Steven Seagal. And Steven Seagal.

Unknown Speaker (19:08): It would be amazing.

Unknown Speaker (19:10): It so bad. It would be amazing.

Unknown Speaker (19:12): And they hate each other. Yeah. Imagine him doing his floppy arm race to go down the floppy

Whitey (19:19): arm How do you master that? Like, Jean Claude Van Damme having to do the floppy arm run.

Unknown Speaker (19:26): Well, he'd be doing the dancing.

Unknown Speaker (19:27): He would be doing the dancing.

Unknown Speaker (19:28): He'd be doing he'd be doing his dancing.

Unknown Speaker (19:30): Yeah. God.

Gow (19:31): Alright. Let's move on from them. Joan Allen. Now she one of her early movies was actually when Peggy oh, sorry. Peggy Sue got married.

Unknown Speaker (19:39): Oh, that's with Nick Cage

Gow (19:40): as well. Nick Cage as well. Yeah. So very interesting. She started her film career in this sort of early eighties, very early eighties.

Gow (19:48): And that was one of the early movies. Got an Academy Award nomination for a role in Oliver Stone's Nixon in '95 as Pat Nixon. Yep. She won awards for seven critics associations, including LA Film Critics and the National Society of Film Critics. Got her second consecutive best supporting actress Oscar Nom for The Crucible, Arthur Miller's The Crucible, was August.

Gow (20:08): Then worked in Ice Storm with Kevin Kline, Sigourney Weaver, then into Face Off. And then in The Contender in 2000, received a best actress nom for that.

Whitey (20:16): Oh, I actually really like The Contender. Yeah. Think it stars Jeff Bridges as well.

Unknown Speaker (20:20): Maybe is it Jeff Bridges and Jeff Bridges?

Unknown Speaker (20:23): I think Jeff Bridges plays the president. You might do. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's The Jeff political one.

Whitey (20:27): Political one. Yeah. She becomes the vice president.

Unknown Speaker (20:30): That's right.

Whitey (20:30): Yep. And they're going and they dive back into her backstory and try and dig up more dirt. It's it's pretty good. Don't mind that it's pretty good. Joan Allen is a great actress.

Whitey (20:39): She's also she's in the Bourne movies.

Unknown Speaker (20:41): All the Bourne movies.

Whitey (20:41): Yeah. She plays the the girl who's sort of on the hunt for him and sort of eventually realizes he's a good guy. But I think she's a good actress. I think she looks out of place in this movie.

Gow (20:52): She is a little bit, isn't it? Unreserved character.

Whitey (20:55): Yeah. She's I I think she I I don't there's zero chemistry Yeah. Between Travolta and her. Yep. Zero, which I

Gow (21:03): think is part of the issue. You're exactly right. I I yeah. Because they just don't have the and I get that they're supposed to be a little bit strange. Like, he struggled Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (21:10): With the death of his son, but there is literally nothing to

Whitey (21:13): do it. I I felt there's no chemistry. Yeah. So, like, when which is why I found it almost unwatchable when Castle Troy becomes Archer and he's flirting with her and he's being not even trying to be like Sean Archer. Just being and she's sort of a bit accepting of it.

Unknown Speaker (21:33): Whereas that would be a red flag to go Massively. What the fuck is wrong with you, mate? Yeah. But she doesn't question it. He walks like as if

Unknown Speaker (21:40): the daughter's not gonna say, dad's in here smoking with me. Yeah. Showing me his flick knife. Yeah. It's so it's some of that is just like just gets let go.

Gow (21:47): Yeah. Luke, some more in the movie, Alessandra Nivola who played Pollocks Troy.

Unknown Speaker (21:53): Yep. He hasn't been in

Unknown Speaker (21:55): a lot. Face Off was one of the early ones. Jurassic Park three.

Unknown Speaker (21:57): Three. He was in Jurassic Park three. American Hustle. Okay.

Gow (22:00): No. He's character he was in the many saints of New York more recently and in The Brutalist. Okay. Made Attila in The Brutalist. Gina Gershon, how can we live her out?

Unknown Speaker (22:08): Well, we can't. She's great.

Unknown Speaker (22:10): Doesn't get a lot of screen time.

Unknown Speaker (22:11): Doesn't get lot of screen time.

Gow (22:12): Don't know if that's by choice or whether they just cut that out.

Unknown Speaker (22:16): She's one of the best things of this movie.

Gow (22:19): She's an integral character that doesn't get a lot of time.

Whitey (22:21): No. She she but she's also the only character I'm sort of interested in.

Unknown Speaker (22:26): Yeah. She's quite good till she passes off her brother.

Unknown Speaker (22:29): But Yeah. That was odd.

Gow (22:30): That actually wasn't scripted. The two of them, her and Nick Cassavetes got together and just said, I think we should do it because there's something like their brother's sister Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (22:37): A weird. It's bit weird.

Unknown Speaker (22:38): And so they said, I think this works. Yeah. Because I was watching going, I haven't seen a braided. I looked at I was like, are they are they related?

Unknown Speaker (22:46): Yeah. They are. Yeah. It's not on.

Gow (22:49): Look. Some others with some small parts, half Prezinal. We'll remember him from Fargo. He was the dad. The dad.

Unknown Speaker (22:54): Marge's dad. I've him in my notes. Wade Gustafson.

Unknown Speaker (22:57): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (22:58): John Carroll Lynch from Fargo as well. Norm Gunderson is I was looking at him because he's lot slimmer in that and he's got the hat on so he don't see the ball. And I was like, who is that guy? Who is that guy? Yep.

Unknown Speaker (23:07): Yeah. He's quite good in this. And he was also in the founder as well. He was Mac McDonald.

Unknown Speaker (23:11): That's right. That's right. That's a good movie too. Yeah. Ray Krocke was a bit nasty.

Unknown Speaker (23:16): Yeah.

Gow (23:17): It's a very interesting movie to watch. I'm pretty sure Megan will

Whitey (23:20): probably pull me up on this. I'm pretty sure Bobby and Jean met Ray Kroc. Oh, really? Yeah. Yep.

Whitey (23:25): Or or someone very close to Raycroft. Right. Yeah. So The godfather. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (23:30): The godfather. Godfather remake his millions. Hand out? You should. Wherever possible.

Whitey (23:38): I've got a little one that I found. Okay. Okay. Now there is it's quite funny. It made me laugh because there's the scene where the guy gets his ear shut off just now apparently, and it's just for a bit of exposition for ten minutes down the road.

Whitey (23:53): Yeah. The first guy they interview who turns up later on the movie is Marvin from Reservoir Dogs who gets his ear cut off. Oh, really? Yes. That's awesome.

Unknown Speaker (24:04): When I saw it, I I saw the ear bit, and then I saw the next guy go, that's fucking Marvin from Reservoir Dogs. It's like the cop. The cop that gets his ear cut off. Wow. I didn't notice that.

Whitey (24:13): So he plays one of the the incestuous brothers sort of hoods.

Unknown Speaker (24:18): Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (24:18): Yeah. Okay. He's at the end, the shootout at the end of the hideout. Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (24:22): It's funny.

Gow (24:23): Another one in there, great name, CCH Pounder.

Whitey (24:26): Yeah. I wouldn't, but okay. Good name, though. Bad ending for her.

Unknown Speaker (24:31): Yeah. Not great.

Unknown Speaker (24:32): No. Not it's not a good way to go. Reckon burning to death would be bad. No. It's not good.

Unknown Speaker (24:36): But, like, she's been in the heat stuff. She was in the shield.

Unknown Speaker (24:38): Yeah. Like, 88 episodes.

Unknown Speaker (24:39): She was in NCIS, the original for a couple episodes. Then she's in New Orleans, like, 155 episodes. She was in Avatar, all the Avatar movies. Yeah. Yep.

Gow (24:48): Yep. And all that. So she's been in Fire and Ash, all of them, I think. Yep. Think she all threw them.

Unknown Speaker (24:54): Oh, CCH. Wonder what her name stands. Wonder what her name is.

Unknown Speaker (24:57): I do know it's like it's crystal current. Like, it's I can't remember.

Unknown Speaker (25:00): Anne's Christian Andersen. Yeah. Something like that.

Gow (25:03): And the other one in there is one of the gangs is Tommy Flanagan.

Unknown Speaker (25:06): Oh, he's the Guy with

Unknown Speaker (25:08): the cuts on his face.

Whitey (25:09): Liverpool smile or whatever it is or the

Gow (25:12): Yep. He's got a he's sons of anarchy. He's in Guardians of the Galaxy. He's in Gladiator. And I was watching Gladiator the other day.

Unknown Speaker (25:16): Was on. I noticed him in there.

Whitey (25:18): Yep. Yeah. He's he's the guy that hands him the little little carving boy. Yep. He's also in Braveheart.

Whitey (25:25): Braveheart. Yeah. He's good in sons of anarchy.

Unknown Speaker (25:29): He is good? Yeah. Chibs. Chibs. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (25:31): Chibs. Sons of Anarchy was such a good show.

Unknown Speaker (25:34): Yeah. It's funny. And then

Unknown Speaker (25:35): it just jumped the shark. Big time. It's like they run out of stuff and then

Whitey (25:39): they're like, we'll just keep going. It's so funny because I tried to watch some of it was on the other week and I was watching like an an episode of season one. Yeah. And it just looks really dated. And I just I I at the time, I remember that I watched Megan and I binge the first season of Sons of Anarchy.

Whitey (25:57): It was a wet weekend when it came out. I had it on Blu ray. And we binged it. I think we didn't have Luke for some reason. He must have been away somewhere.

Whitey (26:07): And we just watched 12 episodes, like, over a weekend. And I was like, I'm in. Yeah. And I was you know, I watched right to the end with Sons of Anarchy, but it the last season

Unknown Speaker (26:18): Yeah. It was Like,

Unknown Speaker (26:19): how many gangs and how many

Gow (26:20): I know. They just start killing more. And I was you just watch it going, surely someone's investigating all these deaths now. Like, it's just like you get away with

Whitey (26:26): When you start killing ATF agents and you start killing cops and Yeah. And FBI agents and everyone's crooked and there were some incredible, oh my fucking god moments in that. The first When Gemma kills Yeah. His missus. Yeah.

Whitey (26:42): Stabs her in the back of the head with that double fork. I was like, oh my fucking god. Well, when

Gow (26:49): when his mate his best mate gets killed in the prison

Unknown Speaker (26:51): Aye, Opie. Yeah. Opie. That's That's a full on scene.

Unknown Speaker (26:55): I know. And he he pushes them all out because they said, one of is going die and he's the one that takes it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (26:58): That was full on.

Gow (26:59): But those first couple of seasons I really liked because there was the intrigue with Katie Siegel as the mom and and the dad. Yep. And then he had the bad relationship with him and there was and it was quite it was quite intriguing because you're like, okay. All this is happening, and it wasn't as full on violent. You know?

Gow (27:13): And the gang was there, and then it just kinda jumped the shark. And the ending where he's riding his bike down the road and does the

Unknown Speaker (27:19): With with about a thousand cops chasing.

Gow (27:20): Yeah. I know. And it goes into the into the truck. I was like, oh. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (27:23): Ruined.

Unknown Speaker (27:24): Spoiler alert. But anyway

Unknown Speaker (27:25): boil it.

Unknown Speaker (27:26): Jack Stars.

Unknown Speaker (27:27): If you haven't seen if you haven't seen Sons of Anarchy by now, it's good. It's it's worth a watch, but it

Whitey (27:32): does jump the shark big time. Yeah. What about box office and any awards gear? There was, actually. It got well, it got it

Gow (27:40): got an Academy Award and nominee Oscar for best effects and sound effects editing.

Unknown Speaker (27:46): Okay.

Unknown Speaker (27:47): That was it. Didn't get anything else.

Whitey (27:48): That must have been the firework noises every time there was an explosion.

Unknown Speaker (27:53): Yes. That's right. Probably. Maybe it was the maybe it was the Archangel music.

Unknown Speaker (27:57): Oh, gosh.

Gow (27:58): But look, that year, Titanic, we've been through this. Yeah. As good as it gets, Jack Nicks and the Helen Hunt. Robin Williams for Goodwill Hunting, one of the great movies. Kim Basher, LA Confidential that year.

Gow (28:09): So it did 112,000,000 domestically, 245.6 internationally. So worldwide, $257,000,000.

Unknown Speaker (28:16): It's blockbuster.

Gow (28:17): So it's a blockbuster. $18,000,000 budget. Big budget.

Unknown Speaker (28:20): Big budget for that time. Yeah.

Gow (28:21): Yep. And opening weekend took 23,000,000. So Okay. Made its money back pretty well. It came in at number 13.

Gow (28:27): Okay. Now the movies that came in at number 15 was Goodwill Hunting. Now I know it was a lot smaller, but I can't believe that movie can't be rated as better than FaceOff.

Unknown Speaker (28:36): Well, no. It's it's I know it's independent film.

Unknown Speaker (28:39): Yep. They were young.

Whitey (28:41): But if you if it's all about return on investment, Goodwill Hunting

Unknown Speaker (28:44): Oh, yeah. Probably cost $10,000,000 to make. 226,000,000. But Con Air was at number 16 too. 224,000,000.

Unknown Speaker (28:50): It's a better movie than FaceOff.

Gow (28:52): But look, Titanic, 2,200,000,000. Lost World, Jurassic Park, 680,000,000. Men in Black. Tomorrow Never Dies, Air Force One, the top five. As good as it gets number six, and that that took a heap of people away.

Whitey (29:06): What's the call? What's the word? Hit Sleeper Hit Sleeper Dud. I've done a bit of a pick your own this week because we've done 97 a bit and you get to choose what you got. Have you picked another chain, man?

Unknown Speaker (29:19): I picked dud. I like it. Face off. No.

Unknown Speaker (29:25): I picked dud.

Gow (29:28): We've done we've done a lot. I think last time we did 97, I talked about Black Rock, the Aussie movie Yes. Which is really good. Look, another one I really like was Absolute Power. That's Clint Eastwood?

Unknown Speaker (29:39): Clint Eastwood. Yeah. Really good movie. I quite like that. There's a lot of intrigue through that movie.

Whitey (29:43): Well, was that was around the time there's a lot of White House movies coming. Yeah. Lot of White House. Murder at 1600 with Wesley Snipes and Yeah. There are quite a few White House movies coming.

Gow (29:51): Yeah. I I just really enjoyed that movie. I just like the premise of Hackman as well. Just a story about absolute power corrupting. I thought it was really,

Whitey (29:58): really good. Yeah. You know, good pre I've I've gone to what I've done is I've I've done a one two punch for sleepers. Right. Because it's two movies that are effectively exactly the same.

Whitey (30:08): I've I've mentioned one of them. I may have mentioned both of them before, but this one came in at number 64 on the list, Relic. Relic? Relic. It's a horror starring Penelope Ann Miller and Tom Sizemore.

Whitey (30:22): Oh, yeah. Homicide detective and anthropologist try to destroy a South American lizard like god on a who's beating people in a Chicago museum. And but then at the same time coming at number 81, and I think it's probably a better movie, is Mimic, which is directed by Guillermo del Toro. It's got Mira Sorvino, Josh Brolin, Charles S Dutton, f Murray Morgzan, and Norman Reedus. And it's really similar.

Whitey (30:49): Norman Reedus? Yeah. Norman Reedus is like an entomologist. She creates an insect to kill cockroaches, but it it evolves. Right.

Whitey (30:59): Yeah. And becomes he starts killing people. So it's sort of attack mankind. It's good. Wow.

Unknown Speaker (31:04): Okay. Mimic. Yeah. I've I've seen Mimic years ago. Well, probably I haven't seen it once.

Unknown Speaker (31:07): So it's not really those

Unknown Speaker (31:08): two. Really? Mimic a lot.

Unknown Speaker (31:09): Couple couple little sort of b grade horror movies, which are pretty good.

Unknown Speaker (31:13): People, get into those.

Whitey (31:14): That's it. Now we we taste it earlier on in the episode, GMM, but here it is. Question time. Here we go. Hit me.

Whitey (31:27): Has you ever seen a movie with more slow mos? No. From the opening Three minutes. Reddit. Three minutes slow mo to start the movie.

Unknown Speaker (31:38): I was like,

Unknown Speaker (31:39): I know. Because I haven't seen it. I was like, I know John Woo loves a slow mo. And I was like, oh my god. Oh, I checked it for three minutes.

Whitey (31:45): I checked it on. It was three minutes until the shots fired and then it stops being slow mo. And half the time he's just sipping on a Coke. Yeah. It's just tragic.

Unknown Speaker (31:55): It's it's slow mo. I know it's in slow, but it took so long. There's so much exposition in

Unknown Speaker (32:01): all of that. It's just tragic. Yeah. It's really tragic.

Gow (32:03): It's like he tried to elongate everything.

Whitey (32:05): Yeah. Well, it's what's two hours and eighteen minutes. I reckon if you filmed it in real time, it's probably hour forty five. Probably. You could've but he could've cut some

Gow (32:14): of that stuff too. Like, there's so much stuff in there that you just don't need and so many superfluous scenes.

Whitey (32:19): Nick Cage is in prison for too long. Yeah. Exactly. Like, he's in prison for way too long. Like, he's sulking in his jail cell for five minutes.

Gow (32:27): Yeah. I have a couple of questions about the whole jail thing, but

Unknown Speaker (32:30): Yeah. Yeah. We'll get

Unknown Speaker (32:31): there. Erawan, it was called.

Whitey (32:33): How evil must you be to want to kill your nemesis when he's playing with his young son? Yeah. Doesn't wait he knows the son's on the merry-go-round with him.

Unknown Speaker (32:45): Yeah. Doesn't wait for the

Whitey (32:46): son to leave or doesn't pick a place that's not surrounded with children at a playground, like at a fun park. Yeah.

Gow (32:57): That's evil. Yeah. Like there's so many chances he's watching and watching and sipping on his Coke, sipping on his soda, like he has all the time in the world and then picks that moment. Yeah. Like when there's so many people around, like it just seems so out of place to do that.

Whitey (33:12): Like It's I don't I never quite. And then he goes, oh, but it was an accident. Cast Troy. It was an accident.

Unknown Speaker (33:19): But hang on. Personally, I was like,

Unknown Speaker (33:21): you shot his son. Yeah. But but it hasn't an accident. You knew he was there with his kid. There was heaps

Gow (33:26): of other people that were gonna be, I mean, not that he's he's like a he's a maniac.

Unknown Speaker (33:30): So he doesn't Yeah. He's a well, he's a serial killer. The airfield. So Castor gets out, gets to the airfield. Pollux is waiting for him.

Whitey (33:44): They've got the plane ready. They know he's at the airfield. Don't you ring the airfield and just make up and say to them, you need to halt him there?

Gow (33:53): You would think they'd say, just say, yeah, pending clearance.

Unknown Speaker (33:56): Yeah. Pending clearance. We can't, you can't take off yet.

Unknown Speaker (33:57): Pending clearance, you know, come back to you in five minutes because that would

Whitey (34:00): be normal. Yeah. I just don't understand that.

Unknown Speaker (34:04): And why would the cops come lights and sirens Yeah. Down in front to let them know they're there? Like, if they if it was so important

Whitey (34:11): It was mental. Yeah. It was mental. It's crazy. Still on the airfield, there's a cast of thousands at the hangar.

Whitey (34:19): First, the plane crashes into the hangar. What's in the hangar? It looks like fuel. Yeah. And there's explosions, but nothing blows up.

Whitey (34:25): Yeah. Right? Which is unusual for this movie. Well, why

Unknown Speaker (34:29): is the engine just on? He

Whitey (34:32): turns it on. Flicks it flicks it on. But there are so many people in the hangar. Why are the cops working individually? Why is anyone alone in that hangar?

Whitey (34:43): Let's all go together. Let's get three of us here, four of us there. It's funny.

Unknown Speaker (34:47): I know they wanna get the two protagonists, but, like, there's, like, all of a sudden, there's no one else. Like, there's thousands of people. There's so

Whitey (34:52): many people there. No one else. Yeah. And then and then how do both Kaster and Sean know how many bullets are left in their guns? They have fired 1,000 bullets and about 10 different guns, yet they're like But they've You

Unknown Speaker (35:09): got one bullet left.

Unknown Speaker (35:09): Yeah. So do you. I know. What?

Gow (35:12): It's just so full on. Like, I get they're supposed to be arch enemies and one's the top cop and one's this great evil character. Was like, just too much.

Whitey (35:20): Fuck me, dude. Come on, John Woo. Now now, Gao, look. You you're the closest thing to a doctor on this podcast. Right?

Whitey (35:27): You are the closest thing. How long does the healing process take for the face off? I don't know. That was so the funny thing is is that when Travolta gets it done Yep. You don't know the period of time.

Unknown Speaker (35:44): No. You don't know the period of time. Nick Cage gets it done, he's up and walking four hours later.

Unknown Speaker (35:50): It's the same day. There's nothing. There's no scars. There's

Unknown Speaker (35:54): no scar.

Gow (35:54): Got this thing that just takes away all the scars. I was like, this is ridiculous. It's it is how does he walk around with no face? Yeah. Yeah.

Gow (36:03): He gets a job. He can't talk properly because he's got no face. Was like, but they they've left him there with with gauze around his head as if he's ever gonna be left there. And then he somehow he's been in a coma. Like, he got smashed by the by the jet.

Unknown Speaker (36:17): Yeah. He's dead. He's in a coma. He's a vegetable. They flick cigarettes out on him.

Gow (36:20): Yeah. And then all of sudden he just wakes up and he's like, yep. I'll just I'll just ring my mates. No time to acclimatize. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (36:26): I'll just ring my mates and I'll get them to come. I know exactly where I am.

Unknown Speaker (36:29): Yeah. We're back into it. But how does it

Unknown Speaker (36:31): Come and get me. Yeah. How do they know where to go? How do they just walk into this place?

Whitey (36:35): It so this now goes straight into my next question. Why don't they just kill Caster Troy after taking his face? They don't need him anymore. Yeah. He's not giving them any information.

Unknown Speaker (36:45): They're assuming he's gonna be everyone thinks he's dead for one. They assume he's gonna be in a coma forever because they're taking his fucking face. Yeah. Just kill him. Take his face and kill him.

Unknown Speaker (36:54): I should just put the

Unknown Speaker (36:55): other face onto a mannequin.

Whitey (36:56): Yeah. Just take his face and kill him. I what about him waking up? And in the room next to him, beautifully presented, is Travolta's face in the in the gel or in the water. Like, fuck me, dead.

Unknown Speaker (37:10): Yeah. There's a few things. Why? Okay. Big plot hole to me is I know that they need to get the information from Pollux about the bomb.

Gow (37:21): And by the way, it is the longest bomb sequence of all time. Like, this bomb is like, how do they know how long how long have they set the bomb for?

Unknown Speaker (37:32): Two hundred and sixty three hours or something it was. God. Two hundred and sixty three hours. Why?

Gow (37:38): Eighteen days. We've got eighteen days. It's just crazy. But I don't understand why they had to put Castor he had to he had to took the face on it. Why didn't they bring him off the out of the jail and say, you need to come and talk to your brother.

Gow (37:56): Your brother's out of thing and then he could have talked to you. Why did they put him into a jail with a population of degenerates? It was dumb. Like, you know, oh, no. No one can know no one can know we have to put you in there.

Gow (38:04): I was like, but they must know he's coming and everyone must know he's there. So why didn't they just bring his brother out and say, no. You're coming. You have to answer questions. And then he's then he sees his brother again.

Whitey (38:13): Yeah. Or or manufacture to like prison break. And so it made it look like, oh, we're out, but we're gonna surround you. Like, you know what I mean? Like, was

Unknown Speaker (38:21): just, again,

Whitey (38:23): mass manufactured drama. Yep. Alright. Manufactured drama. So as I already mentioned, surely Archer's wife realizes that he's a completely different guy.

Whitey (38:33): Yes. Like, Carcer Troy is making no

Unknown Speaker (38:40): try to be Archer. I was thinking about this today. He makes no effort to go like, no. I've gotta act a bit like this cop. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (38:47): He apparently just walks into the office and acts completely differently, and everyone just goes, oh, okay.

Unknown Speaker (38:51): Yeah. Or or and then the girl goes, oh, did you get a the stick taken out of your ass? Yeah. The worst line in the movie. Yeah.

Whitey (38:57): Terrible. In a in a lot in a movie with with I can eat a peach for hours. Yeah. Right? And that's not the worst line.

Whitey (39:04): I also don't get that if he was such a hard ass, she would never say that to him.

Gow (39:09): No. Exactly right. You would never say that to him.

Unknown Speaker (39:11): She's got a medical procedure.

Unknown Speaker (39:12): Yeah. What do mean? I don't know. But that how bad is it? Because they have to throw in the medical procedure.

Whitey (39:16): Yeah. Of course. It's like, oh god. It's just so dumb. So now my god.

Whitey (39:23): Is Jamie's boyfriend, the daughter, Carl, hitting himself in the driveway trying to rape her?

Gow (39:31): Again, it's just so like, I'm gonna drop you home, but then I'm gonna get Fresh.

Unknown Speaker (39:36): Really fresh driveway. In

Gow (39:37): To the point where she's she's screaming. Screaming. And you're like, that's not gonna happen.

Whitey (39:41): Now did you know who the boy that plays Carl is? No. Who was it? It's Danny Masterson from that seventies show who was in jail for rape. I looked at him.

Whitey (39:51): I was like, is it Danny Master?

Unknown Speaker (39:52): I didn't think it was.

Unknown Speaker (39:53): It's Danny Masterson.

Unknown Speaker (39:54): As soon

Unknown Speaker (39:55): as I saw the hair, I was

Unknown Speaker (39:56): like, is it Danny Master? And I looked at it, oh, no.

Unknown Speaker (39:58): Maybe it's not. My notes say life imitating art. Imitating life. Wow. I saw I looked through the cast.

Unknown Speaker (40:04): I didn't see his name.

Whitey (40:05): Has not aged well at all.

Unknown Speaker (40:08): Oh, no. God, no. That is horrible.

Whitey (40:11): Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Why doesn't anyone question why Sean Archer is suddenly walking around with caster Troy's hoods? He's just getting around town with the Casters b one and b two.

Whitey (40:26): Yep. Like, it's just

Gow (40:30): how this movie is so dumb. Why does Caster Troy just turn back up to his mate's place to Nick Cassavetes with the bald head and just goes, and they go, oh, you're back? You know? I thought you were dead. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (40:43): Like, you're supposed to be dead and or a life support. Now you just turn up. Here, get this down, will you? Get off your head. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (40:49): Get off your gattest

Unknown Speaker (40:49): like, what happened? Where'd you come from? Yeah. They just go, oh, are

Unknown Speaker (40:52): you back?

Unknown Speaker (40:52): Yeah. Alright. Cool. Let's party. It's just it was bizarre.

Unknown Speaker (40:57): Yeah. Was

Gow (40:58): And that so but that then means that Castor Troyes, the cop hadn't got in touch with his other mates. So he had b one and b two, but he hadn't got in touch with them.

Unknown Speaker (41:06): Correct. So I don't get that bit either. Well, I think they were like the b group.

Unknown Speaker (41:11): Right.

Whitey (41:12): So he hadn't seen because he hadn't seen missus He hadn't seen Jeanie Gershon for a while. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't like, because Casa doesn't know about the kid. He's yours too.

Whitey (41:22): Oh my god. Did everyone in this movie go to Stormtrooper Shooting School? That's not great. The cops aren't great. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (41:33): Everyone's terrible.

Unknown Speaker (41:34): Like, the cops just bursting through the roof

Whitey (41:36): when the lights just get shut. There's five year old kid in the house, and they don't give a fuck. They're just blowing the windows apart. Yeah. It was gonna it was mind boggling.

Whitey (41:47): It was very mind boggling the way they

Unknown Speaker (41:48): attacked it. But anyway, I I guess that's the price pay for action.

Whitey (41:51): Okay. Last one. How do Caster and Archer survive the boat crash? Yeah. That's pretty full on.

Whitey (42:00): So that they are going at 70 miles per hour is and that was practical. This the chase was practical. They get flung, gotta be 60 to 70 meters, and land on concrete on the ramp. You're dead. Yeah.

Whitey (42:17): There's no way. You're not getting up from that. And then cast to catching the the rubbers on the spear. On the spear and

Unknown Speaker (42:27): holding it. And holding it for ages.

Unknown Speaker (42:29): That yeah. I was just like It was just ridiculous.

Unknown Speaker (42:33): See, and this is the thing. When I when we first watched it and we saw this movie, I was like, I don't mind the the face off. Like, it's a it's a different premise.

Unknown Speaker (42:40): Like, I

Gow (42:40): like that because it's a different premise. Yeah. And they got this technology where they can put his face on the body. And I guess now years later, you're like, hang on. Hang on.

Unknown Speaker (42:47): How did all of

Whitey (42:48): this work? Yeah. See, I think what happens is that obviously at at 22, '23, we don't have the big questions. Right? We don't have we don't care for the big questions.

Whitey (42:59): We like the we like the explosions. We like the action. We like a bit of swearing. We like some guns. And if we can slip some boobs in there, well, it

Gow (43:07): makes it even better. I had a big bag of popcorn, big tub I had ice cream

Unknown Speaker (43:13): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (43:13): And probably a big Big Coke. Big big Coke, and that's it. That's all I just chomping down on Thursday night. Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (43:18): Happy with that.

Whitey (43:19): Absolutely. Absolutely. Anyway, so that's question time, people. There are many, many, many, many, many,

Gow (43:26): many with some questions about this that we may have forgotten.

Whitey (43:28): We would love to hear from you. Leave us leave us some on on Instagram or DM us on Instagram or leave us a a a voice mail as we slide into OnlyFans, if you've got something to say about FaceOff or you think you know, we're only sort of halfway through the episode. If you think we're being a little

Unknown Speaker (43:50): too harsh and you guys are being off your face. Oh. What I did there?

Whitey (43:54): Jesus. Yeah. That's bad. But people, a really good time on the podcast that if if anyone likes this movie or hates this movie and you think they'd appreciate the episode, just push the share button and share it to someone. Get it out there.

Whitey (44:06): We our numbers are vastly growing in The UK, which is really nice to see. I'm not sure whether your reputation is preceding you over there. We're big in Bristol apparently. Yeah. Couple of big Bristols.

Unknown Speaker (44:18): Couple of

Unknown Speaker (44:19): big Bristol big Bristol cities.

Whitey (44:22): But what we do have is a longtime listener and supporter and the man behind the incredible theme song Yeah. Has sent us a voice mail this week after a mention in last week's episode.

Speaker 3 (44:35): Hi, guys. Strangles here. It's been a while, but I heard there was a badger alert on the poltergeist episode, which our brilliant Cockburn expert snarls reporter mentioned with Jabeth Williams in Cromer versus Cromer. Now, firstly, this is great spotting from Cockburn. Obviously, with his experience in the Snorls department, he's he's starting to step up his game.

Speaker 3 (45:03): And he continues this way. I think he will be able to progress to a really good Spadger reporter down the line. But to really break this down for you, let me just go into a bit of detail. So Jo Beth Williams in in Crayer versus Crayer is naked, walks into the hall

Unknown Speaker (45:20): and there's a child.

Speaker 3 (45:21): And she quickly covers up her left arm going across the snob. And then you don't see it till a bit later, but she has her right hand covering what she thinks is a whole lot of her Spadger. But however, if if you see between her right thumb and pointer finger, you can catch a glimpse of the Spadger there in the wild. But look, I encourage everyone to go online and have a look and enjoy it for themselves. And and like I always say, have fun with Spadges.

Unknown Speaker (45:53): Strangle I'll tell you what,

Unknown Speaker (45:54): has not let us down.

Whitey (45:56): That was great. Strangle. When I when I listened to it then, as I listened to it, when it first got sent to us, all I envisaged was Kevin Costner in JFK going back into the left, back into the left. It was like a coronial inquest. And that's what we need.

Whitey (46:12): And that's what we want from our our our au to Spadger reporters. I think he was looking for a senior Spadger

Gow (46:21): nomination. I think well Senior Spadger reporter.

Whitey (46:23): This is it. The golden Spadger. The golden Spadger. He's he's he's up for the golden Spadger. Well done, Strangles.

Whitey (46:29): Love love hearing from you, mate. A quality Spadger report, and Damo will be very happy to hear good, the bad, and the ugly brought to you by our mates at Gauge Rhodes Brew Company. G man, do you any any partaking on the weekend of Gauge Rhodes? I did.

Unknown Speaker (46:56): I sat down and had a couple of quiet ones at home on Saturday night.

Unknown Speaker (47:00): They hit the spot.

Gow (47:01): They did. I was getting ready for my golf course. I was visualizing. How did that work for you?

Unknown Speaker (47:05): Not not great. Should

Unknown Speaker (47:07): you have a

Unknown Speaker (47:07): few more? I probably should have.

Gow (47:09): Seemed to form better with a few more side dicks.

Whitey (47:12): Well, the side dick, the Hazy Az, single fin, or the Matzo's chili lime Chili lime. Chingebi.

Unknown Speaker (47:18): I've got some chili limes in the fridge. They're pretty good. They are nice. It's a good change up. They are nice.

Whitey (47:22): G man, this should be an interesting segment. Gonna go to you first for the good. What have you got?

Unknown Speaker (47:30): Jenny Gershon.

Unknown Speaker (47:31): You're a big Jenny Gershon guy, aren't you? Yeah. She's great. She's very like, she's dark hair Yeah. Which is really a gay I'll go to.

Unknown Speaker (47:40): Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I thought I thought she was good in this.

Gow (47:46): As I said earlier, I liked the storyline, the idea of the storyline. Yes. So I had down here the storylines because that was what I originally wrote. Now reviewing it, I'm not sure, but I do like that it's at least something different. Like he's taken us and gone, let's face off.

Gow (47:58): Let's go something completely different. It's bold. Yeah. The story is bold. It's a very bold story.

Gow (48:04): I'm not sure how well it's taken, but, you know, I remember it as being a good movie. I just don't now have that from watching it again. Maybe I should have watched it. I don't have much else for good.

Whitey (48:19): Okay. Yeah. I thought you wouldn't have much. I don't have much either, but I I sort of dug a bit deeper. In excess in the soundtrack.

Whitey (48:25): Yeah. So in excess plays, and and it's something about taking your identity or something in the words. I was laughing. Margie's dad from Fargo.

Unknown Speaker (48:35): Yeah.

Whitey (48:37): Now I I actually quite liked the the reveal of Archer coming into the jail to meet Travolta as Caster. So Nick Cage coming in as Archer. You know what I mean? And then it's and then the look on his face is like, oh, I'm fucked. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (48:57): I'm really fucked.

Unknown Speaker (48:57): That's when he knew his world was going

Whitey (48:59): I thought that was a good reveal. It didn't need to be a six minute slow mo, but I thought that was a good little twist. I I do love a jail fight. I do love a jail fight, and that was not a bad jail fight. And then the jail breakout.

Whitey (49:15): I didn't mind the jail breakout.

Gow (49:16): I liked it. I liked it when he came out onto the roof and he's like,

Unknown Speaker (49:18): oh, no.

Unknown Speaker (49:19): Shit. Yeah. I'm I'm mildly. Then the truck comes out. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (49:22): And then I'm alcatrazed.

Whitey (49:23): How he survived and how he got to the land, I'm sure we'll discuss.

Unknown Speaker (49:30): Yeah. Well, they don't. That's the thing they just glossed over that.

Unknown Speaker (49:32): Like Yeah. He's dead. No. He's dead. Yeah.

Whitey (49:34): Or Castor Troy died escaping prison's body.

Unknown Speaker (49:36): And then and then he turns up. Erawan. Weird. Well, it was the Anagram of Nowhere. That's the name of the place.

Unknown Speaker (49:43): Oh. That's the name of the jail. Erawan.

Unknown Speaker (49:45): G man. Yeah. But look, I you know what I did?

Unknown Speaker (49:49): I actually always say the good I liked I liked the magnetic boots thing. Yep. I think that was really cool. Like, it's something different. You're like, is what these guys have to clunk around.

Unknown Speaker (49:56): Like, they cannot they cannot get out of their boots, so they can't do anything wrong.

Whitey (49:59): Yeah. Yeah. Which is and and also, I think it was quite smart that, you know, I've gotta go and get shocked, so gotta take the magnetic boots off. So there was that that whole I think the whole prison break plan, even though it is extremely far fetched, I didn't mind the prison break. Thought that was okay.

Unknown Speaker (50:15): No. I didn't mind that.

Unknown Speaker (50:16): For too long, though.

Gow (50:17): Old old spit mouth. Vomit mouth. Well, sabotka.

Whitey (50:21): There's sabotka from season two. And also, he's machine in eight millimeter. So he's the guy he's the killer. He's also in He's in heaps of stuff.

Unknown Speaker (50:31): Yeah. He's in that TV show about the vampires. The Aussie guy.

Unknown Speaker (50:35): Oh, True Blood. True Blood. Yeah. He's he's from True Blood. Your mate?

Whitey (50:38): Quonton. Yeah. Yeah. Quonton. Okay.

Whitey (50:41): My last good, the end credits when the movie was over.

Unknown Speaker (50:45): Fair enough. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (50:47): Bad g man. Let's go.

Unknown Speaker (50:49): We've done it. We've done a lot of it. I'll go through it quickly. The overdone slow mo in Cathedral music. Yeah.

Gow (50:54): We'll talk more about that, I'm sure. One of and look, I've talked about why did they drink Pollocks to him? Why did his gangs accept that he was back? Two more things. When Travolta gets shot or when Sean Oates gets shot at the start and he's lying on the ground and then crawls over, like she's his boy and crawls over.

Gow (51:14): Nobody helps. No. There's not people aren't running away because you see feet in the background, they're just standing around. Nobody runs over. There's no Sly Nixon over there.

Gow (51:23): No. I listened to that bit last week. Saving lives.

Unknown Speaker (51:27): Yeah. Slaves lives. Pretty cool. I'll be there. I'll be there.

Gow (51:32): There's no one there's no one running over like that to, like, help him. He just crawls over and then holds his boy. There's no one I could get that people would be panicked, but you don't see him running away. You just see no one doing anything. Yeah.

Gow (51:43): It's weird. The other one was when they redo his face now I know he's been through a lot and they redo his face and they put him back into his Sean Archer body. And they're all at the hospital and then they all go home. Isn't it weird that she's sitting at home then he whisk across the front man? Misty.

Unknown Speaker (52:02): Yeah. And I was like, what? Would be at the hospital.

Unknown Speaker (52:04): He's been through this major He's

Unknown Speaker (52:06): dressed in his work clothes.

Unknown Speaker (52:07): I know. And he's and he brings the kid. And I

Unknown Speaker (52:11): was like, this is so odd that

Unknown Speaker (52:13): the the wife's sitting at home. You're at

Unknown Speaker (52:14): the hospital or you're like, how does he get home?

Unknown Speaker (52:17): The cops just bringing her like

Whitey (52:19): Well, the healing is like seventy eight minutes. So they you just get discharged and, yeah, you're good to drive. You've had your face replaced, mate. We still

Unknown Speaker (52:28): have a booger on the way home.

Unknown Speaker (52:29): But you're good to drive. I

Unknown Speaker (52:31): don't know. He just turns up fully dressed in his suit and comes in. I was so like, this is really odd. I could understand that I get to see the end of the movie, but that's at the hospital. The wife's going be at the hospital.

Gow (52:41): The kids are going be at the hospital. Weird. They're not going to be, especially knowing that he's having the surgery that day. Like he's not just turning up at home. Like, you you don't just tell your wife like, I'm in hospital having major surgery.

Unknown Speaker (52:52): But not coming home when I'm home.

Whitey (52:53): But not only that, we're flying the best facial surgeons in. This is a new technology. Like, old mate is the only guy that apparently has ever done this before. Yeah. But it's okay.

Whitey (53:05): We're just gonna bring guys in and you're gonna be sweet in seventy four minutes. It'll be all good.

Unknown Speaker (53:08): Yeah. Weird. Very odd. Anything else? That's it.

Gow (53:12): Oh, the bomb lag, but I talked about that.

Whitey (53:13): Yeah. Okay. Okay. The movie's too long.

Unknown Speaker (53:16): Way too long.

Whitey (53:17): Two hours and eighteen minutes is too long for this movie. A three minute slow mo at the start. Terrible mustache from the cage at the start. Yeah. It's stuck on.

Whitey (53:27): It's a stick on mustache. Him dressed up as the priest when he's doing the bomb and dancing in the is the one of the most dumbest and ridiculous things I've

Unknown Speaker (53:37): ever seen. I'm gonna go with it. It's egregious. It's egregious. It's a Denise

Unknown Speaker (53:42): is really an investigation.

Gow (53:43): Denise is really an investigation. No. It is. When he's grabbing the girl in the ass like Unbelievable. Stage in front of everyone.

Unknown Speaker (53:49): It's just a fucking joke.

Gow (53:51): Actually, I do have one more good to say. I'll just say it like Nick Cage's hairstyle because he chose to run now. Some of us are running with that now, but he chose to run with that.

Unknown Speaker (54:01): That was a choice. I like that. Okay. I like that. Okay.

Whitey (54:04): It's the Gao. Gao Cage. Gold guns and his box of goodies. They bring him the box of goodies.

Gow (54:12): Again, like, he's just turned he's turned up and no one's like, oh, cool. Let's go get his get his box of goodies and his guns and his drugs and stuff. I was like, it's really odd.

Whitey (54:20): Yeah. The the manufactured drama now, we talked about this earlier. So there's a lot of slamming doors. There's a lot of yelling. There's a lot of operatic music.

Whitey (54:29): It's all manufactured. There's nothing that's earned. So they don't build drama. They force it down your throat.

Unknown Speaker (54:37): Yeah.

Whitey (54:37): And that really pissed me off because I'm I I never it never gives you a chance to be invested in anything because it's too busy trying to tell you Yeah. How you're supposed to be feeling. Oh, shit. It's oh,

Speaker 2 (54:49): oh, Arch is upset. Oh, he's slamming your door. He's yelling. Yes.

Unknown Speaker (54:53): Kinda like a big opera. Yeah.

Whitey (54:54): It is. It's it's over the top. Everything is over the top. The office clap. Yeah.

Whitey (55:01): Like, fuck me, dude. You killed him, and they're clapping him, and he's like, this isn't a what about Wiesbowski? What about Crow? What about Aipon?

Unknown Speaker (55:11): Exactly. I mean, they worked with those people. So they wouldn't be just clapping, oh, you're back. Well done. All of you like, six of your mates got killed.

Unknown Speaker (55:19): Sike.

Unknown Speaker (55:20): It was bad. I never thought What about the FBI sending him a bottle of champagne? I know. Well done. He's a bottle of champers.

Unknown Speaker (55:26): Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (55:26): Yeah. Here you go. Well done. 700 people have died, but here you go. You got him.

Whitey (55:31): The the floppy disc, slow mo, handing the floppy disc over in slow mo. I was like, are we at that level? Does that warrant it? Fuck. The healing process.

Whitey (55:45): Archer as Caster sulking in the jail cell when he's I'm like, really? Like, you're supposed to be. You are supposed to be the number two FBI agent in the country, and you're crying and sulking. Like, fucking make a plan, mate. Yeah.

Whitey (56:07): You're Vinny Barbarino for fuck's sake.

Unknown Speaker (56:10): Just to cut to it.

Whitey (56:13): And, oh my god. This was as close to going into ugly. But so Travolta as Caster meeting the sun. Meeting Caster's son, Gina Gershon's son. Michael.

Unknown Speaker (56:32): Michael. And she's like, what the fuck?

Unknown Speaker (56:37): To be fair, he'd already been given the no more drugs for that man. Yeah. But Michael. I know. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (56:42): Was full on. That was bad. That whole thing. I like the scene where they go back there, but some of it was just

Whitey (56:48): Mate. Jealous. Seriously. G man, are we are we

Gow (56:53): gonna talk about the the funeral scene? Is that coming up?

Whitey (56:58): The funeral scene. Well, well, hit me

Gow (57:00): with his mentor, you know. Oh, Victor Lazaro. Victor Lazaro. Yeah. My mentor, gone.

Gow (57:08): Well, the whole thing for one, like the doves and the slo mo, but the fact that he knows that Arch is coming, like later, and then he stays with no one. He's got the whole police force that he can he knows he said he's coming. He's like, no, no, we're gonna assemble this. So apparently there's 12 people at this eight Funeral.

Unknown Speaker (57:29): There was beach in shacky church that's got rickety chairs. Surely, he's getting a state funeral if he's the number one A boss of the FBI. He's getting a state funeral.

Unknown Speaker (57:40): And then everyone's just gone and he just hangs around and goes, I'll just wait for Archer. And then he just walks up the beach. Like, there's not gonna be a thousand FBI and cops or FBI agent cops around.

Whitey (57:48): Mate, Kurt Russell in Backdraft got the fucking fire trucks down Chicago's main drag. Yeah. They shut down the town. That's right. Lazaro gets nothing.

Whitey (57:59): Yeah. The I've got the doves in the church.

Gow (58:04): Yeah. So He loves the doves because they represent the soul.

Whitey (58:09): My my note says because I we hadn't really seen doves yet. We hadn't seen them. And as he's walking into the church, there's seagulls on the beach and I go, oh, is it seagulls instead of doves? He walks into the church and doves fly off the mantle. I'm like, what the fuck are they doing in there?

Unknown Speaker (58:26): Yeah. Like, it's so it's so it's an open It's been thrived. Yeah. Yeah. It's very much so.

Whitey (58:32): So ugly, g. Good only for ugly. Oh, no. I think we've covered everything. Okay.

Unknown Speaker (58:36): I've good. Because I've got heaps. Oh, okay. I could eat a peach for hours. Oh, yeah.

Whitey (58:41): It's bad. And that's the line they use Yeah. For him to be able to talk like Castor Troy. Yeah. I could eat a peach for hours.

Unknown Speaker (58:49): I could eat a peach for what if he says to the girl then

Unknown Speaker (58:51): goes suck my tongue? Unbelievable. Unbelievable. It's bad. It's bad.

Whitey (58:57): I I brought this movie is so over the top. It's just fucking it's it's boring. Talked about the doves in the church. So the the speedboat chase, it's supposed to be high octane charged. They turn around and in front of them is a police boat, singers.

Whitey (59:17): Right? I I expected to see Phelpsie up on the fucking bow. They pull out m sixteens, and there's, like, 10 of them on this boat, which looks like the Amity boat in Jaws two. Yep. And there's 10 of them with machine guns shooting at the boats.

Unknown Speaker (59:33): Like, for fuck's sake? Yeah. You're blood.

Gow (59:35): You just know why you're coming away from that. That boat's blowing up.

Unknown Speaker (59:38): It's just my god. And okay. The last bit. I had a scar. Oh.

Unknown Speaker (59:44): I had the scar. I had a scar on my chest. Make sure you put it back. No. No.

Unknown Speaker (59:49): No. That's what he said there. That's what he

Unknown Speaker (59:50): says at the start. Yeah. Oh, at the end.

Unknown Speaker (59:52): I don't need it anymore. Fuck. We did. It's pretty bad. I don't need it anymore.

Unknown Speaker (1:00:04): I was like, John, come on, mate.

Gow (1:00:10): What about John Travolta apparently got a bit upset because, you know, they said like, this ridiculous chin? Yeah. And apparently the writers he got into the writers, he's like, are you trying to make fun of my chin? And they're like, no. Well, we're just saying that the character of Caster Troy would say that.

Gow (1:00:25): Yes. We talked about him being thin skinned.

Unknown Speaker (1:00:28): Yeah. You do have a bum chin, mate.

Unknown Speaker (1:00:29): Relax. It's like of course, that was like, of course, he's gonna say something like that because he's he it's not him. No.

Unknown Speaker (1:00:35): He's been he's mean. He's a meanie. He's meanie. He's a

Unknown Speaker (1:00:39): big meanie.

Whitey (1:00:40): This movie is ugly. It's two hours and eighteen minutes. I won't get back. I'm really I apologize, Gale.

Unknown Speaker (1:00:48): Yeah. I'm gonna say I was gonna have a we're have a meeting about the

Whitey (1:00:51): I apologize. Kicking. I apologize. But in saying that, sometimes it's good to do the shit movies.

Unknown Speaker (1:00:55): Well, we got it.

Whitey (1:00:56): In the future, we'll try not to do two hours and twenty minute shit movies. But I'll tell you

Gow (1:01:01): what, when we, I sort of listened, I'll face off, that's not a bad movie. Yeah. I don't mind doing that. I haven't seen it for a long time. You know, sometimes you've got to watch movies, it's a bit hard to watch because you've seen them recently and you, you know, you've to invest that time, but this was one I was like, no, I'm ready to watch.

Gow (1:01:14): But I just, I honestly

Unknown Speaker (1:01:16): change my opinion on. I honestly did not think I would view it in the way that I did.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:22): I didn't either. I didn't I didn't think I disliked It

Unknown Speaker (1:01:24): was an honest mistake.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:24): It was an honest mistake. Quick

Unknown Speaker (1:01:28): fire, and this will be very quick

Unknown Speaker (1:01:30): Okay.

Whitey (1:01:31): I think. Say hello to my little friend, golden tickets, pop culture, anything.

Gow (1:01:39): I don't know. Face off the name, I guess.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:42): Yeah. That's it. Face back.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:43): Face back. I'm gonna get my you said they say that in the movie. I'm gonna get my

Unknown Speaker (1:01:48): face back. Terrible reviews out of the gate. Straight out of the gate.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:55): Right. That's one of the best jokes ever.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:57): One of the best.

Unknown Speaker (1:01:58): Maybe the face the hand down the face. I don't know. There's not really

Whitey (1:02:01): any nothing that we would use, and there's nothing that's really pop culture. Pig face lookouts for the biggest dick character. They're all bad. I've got everyone. Yeah.

Whitey (1:02:13): I I They're bad characters. They're all bad characters. They're all dicks. Yeah.

Gow (1:02:17): I mean, there's a lot of side characters, not not a lot really involved in the Like, there's, you know, there's only the main ones. It focuses on them. Everyone else only has small, small parts.

Whitey (1:02:26): The I reckon in the contracts that said, guys, you are gonna have Yeah. 49.5% of screen time each. Yeah. And the other 1% is going to the rest of

Unknown Speaker (1:02:38): the cast. Few background actors. Yeah. And that's it.

Whitey (1:02:40): Yeah. It's terrible. Five minute movie. How would we make

Gow (1:02:44): this a five minute movie? Oh, he just shoots him in

Whitey (1:02:47): the head. Yeah. Kills Troy when he's in the coma. Makes a better shot. Takes the face, kills him.

Unknown Speaker (1:02:52): Well, what if he'd killed him and the kid? Like, don't that is. But if he killed them both Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:02:56): Yeah. God, that would have been good.

Unknown Speaker (1:02:57): Or if he just killed if he did shot him properly or just walked up and shot him. Yeah. The guy's out on a sad day with his kid at the park. Like, I don't think he's armed to the teeth.

Whitey (1:03:05): Could they find a kid that looks any more like his I know. First son? Yes. Like, it's almost like they're twins.

Gow (1:03:14): Yeah. Looks like the new kid out of different strokes. Hey, mister d.

Unknown Speaker (1:03:18): It's the guy out of t two. T two. T two guy. Damo. Damo.

Whitey (1:03:23): It's Damo. Baby Damo. Olivia Newton John, Sandy Cartwheel, bad athletic prowess.

Unknown Speaker (1:03:31): Oh god.

Whitey (1:03:32): There's not a lot of running in this movie, really. Like, it's all short spurts. Like, the prison break is sort of the only running. Travolta does no running. No.

Whitey (1:03:44): Nick Cage does a lot of

Gow (1:03:45): the running, and he's pretty good. Travolta's done some dancing in this movie. No. I can't think of anything. Nothing stuck out to me.

Unknown Speaker (1:03:55): When the when he jumps off Erawan, you can tell it's not him. It's about as easy as can.

Whitey (1:03:59): And the boat crash, the the two people are not it's definitely not there. It's definitely

Unknown Speaker (1:04:06): can tell.

Whitey (1:04:06): Yep. It's definitely not there. Aliens, robot, sentries. Do we need any extra scenes in this video?

Unknown Speaker (1:04:13): I think we got way more than we needed Yeah. In this. In fact, like I said, you could cut some of this back. Like, we get the point. It's not hard at the start to say, this guy's the good guy.

Unknown Speaker (1:04:22): This guy's the bad guy. He hates the cop, tries to kill him, kills his son. Yeah. We could have got through that very quickly.

Whitey (1:04:27): Yep. Absolutely. This one's pretty easy as it's quite a sausage fest. The Brad Pitt person you'd most like to lie down with, we're gonna go Janie Gershell. We're gonna go Janie Gershell.

Whitey (1:04:37): Yeah. Not much else. Morgues alike look alike. Anyone? It's not often that no one sort of stands up and says, hey.

Whitey (1:04:46): I'm Morgs.

Gow (1:04:47): Yeah. The vomit guy, he's a bit he's got a bit of Morgs.

Unknown Speaker (1:04:50): He does it, but Srbotka does. Srbotka Morgs. He does. Vomits a lot more. Morg sends and leaves bits on his face.

Unknown Speaker (1:04:57): Doesn't really clean up after himself. No. He doesn't. Like Winken Avenue. Oh, it's Circa '93.

Whitey (1:05:03): Christmas presents. The old Christmas presents. Old Christmas presents.

Gow (1:05:06): I don't know. Was there anyone else that looked like Morgz? Don't think so. No.

Whitey (1:05:11): Don't think so either. That's it. Now, unfortunately, no Snorlj report tonight. Damo's on sabbatical. He's researching the next Snorlj report, I'm sure.

Unknown Speaker (1:05:23): Feel the twist behind Listen to this, g man. Have you got anything?

Gow (1:05:31): I've got a few. I went through the different characters that or the different people that could have portrayed this. One of I'm gonna go through a little bit of the Greek mythology for you and the names. Oh, please do. Right.

Gow (1:05:48): So the main character is named Sean Archer. Yep. Archer, Sagittarius is the archer. Right? In the zodiac signs.

Unknown Speaker (1:05:56): The constellation's the zodiac.

Unknown Speaker (1:05:57): Thanks,

Gow (1:05:58): John. So diametrically opposite halfway around the year from the constellation of Gemini. Castor and Pollux are the two major stars in the constellation of Gemini. Oh. So you've got Sagittarius the archer and Gemini over here.

Gow (1:06:10): So that's Polar opposites. Polar opposites. Right? So Greek mythology, Castor and Pollux were leaders twin sons by two different fathers. Castor was son of Tyndarius, the king of Sparta, and Pollux was the son of Zeus.

Gow (1:06:22): The twin half brothers fought together in the Trojan war. Leda was also the mother of Helen of Troy. Pollux, as son of Zeus was a mortal. Castor, as the son of a mortal man, was mortals. They were allowed to spend alternate days together because the between the underworld and Olympus because Zeus took pity on the pair and gave Castor half of Pollux's immortality because they could not take the separation of death.

Unknown Speaker (1:06:44): So there's a lot of symbolism in there because obviously those two brothers were very close and were like that, you know, they wanted to be together all the time. Very interesting.

Unknown Speaker (1:06:54): Geez. Yeah. Going all the way back to Greek mythology. The way back. All the back.

Gow (1:07:00): So when Dubov, when Subotkai is attacked by the guards at the prison, he dodges behind a box and the box is marked with the name Ingen, I n g e n. Oh, that's Jurassic Park. Jurassic Park. Yep. Also means no one in Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish, which is Ingen because they're on Erawan, which is nowhere.

Gow (1:07:18): So there you go. God.

Whitey (1:07:20): Pretty good. The original script was set in the future. Really? Yep. John Woo hated it and and got it changed so that it's you're gonna love this.

Whitey (1:07:32): The original concept by writers, Mike Werb

Unknown Speaker (1:07:35): Oh, no. I saw him. Mike. Good old Mike Werb.

Whitey (1:07:39): Was a sci fi action film, and he wanted it to be Woog wanted it grounded in the real world so the emotional stakes would land harder. This movie is not grounded at all. In the real world.

Gow (1:07:51): No. And that's the thing. Like, it's it's really unbelievable.

Whitey (1:07:55): Yeah. Could you imagine Stallone and Swartzenegger doing this? Yeah. It would be shocking. They do do a skate plan together, which is quite similar to this.

Unknown Speaker (1:08:06): Yeah. But but

Unknown Speaker (1:08:07): Do they do they play it? If they used do it, they played a little bit of comedy though with a little bit of their A

Unknown Speaker (1:08:12): little bit, yeah, a little bit of their repartee.

Unknown Speaker (1:08:14): Yeah. A little bit of that audio. You're gonna be FUBAR. What's FUBAR?

Whitey (1:08:19): So the composer had never scored a major film before and only got the gig because Hans Zimmer was too busy. Oh. So Wu wanted Hans Zimmer to score the film, but Zimmer couldn't do it. And but he recommended John Powell, guaranteed that if Powell failed that he'd step in, the score is awful. It's definitely not one that I go, oh, that was good.

Whitey (1:08:40): It was it was over the top. It was grandiose.

Unknown Speaker (1:08:43): Well, so is the rest of the movie. That's the whole thing. Right?

Whitey (1:08:45): Yeah. So as you mentioned before, the boat chase was real practical effect. They're doing 70 miles an hour.

Unknown Speaker (1:08:51): And of the stunts were the actual effect, I believe.

Whitey (1:08:54): Yeah. And the crash was practical. So Yeah. Pretty pretty full on because it was quite a substantial chase and crash. That's it.

Whitey (1:09:03): Anything for Croatables, Gale?

Gow (1:09:07): Not really. I had the peach. We've had that. Oh, the one I did like was cast a tree when he gets to the hospital with the two goons and bails her up. Then he walks out and he goes, lies to see mixed messages.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:19): This is turning into a real marriage.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:21): Yes. Yeah. Was quite The

Gow (1:09:24): other one was Jamie Archer. Then she's like, dad, I'm sorry I shot you. I thought that was quite funny.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:29): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:29): Little bit of brevity in

Whitey (1:09:30): the movie. What about so you wanna take my face off? It was like Shatner. I know.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:38): It was very Shatner. Was very Shatner is terrible.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:41): But when he's off his head too, he's like, what are you doing?

Unknown Speaker (1:09:43): I'm gonna take his face up.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:46): You wanna take his face? And then he does the big hand off. It was just pathetic. No more drugs for Batman. It was pathetic.

Unknown Speaker (1:09:53): If you dress like Halloween, ghouls will try to

Unknown Speaker (1:09:56): get into your pants. I liked that. That was good. And it was true. It was sort

Gow (1:09:59): of that and I did like the bit where he said he showed her the butterfly knife and he's like, you do this, you twist it, which is exactly what she does

Unknown Speaker (1:10:06): Which she did. Yeah.

Gow (1:10:07): Later on. But I like that. I like that he's like

Whitey (1:10:09): He's he's actually being like, teaching her the way of the

Gow (1:10:12): to go. Yeah. Yeah. Like Yeah. If you carry on like an idiot, they're gonna do it.

Gow (1:10:16): If you're gonna do this, you need to you need to sort yourself out.

Unknown Speaker (1:10:18): Yeah. Agreed. One degree of Kurt Russell. Oh, I didn't

Unknown Speaker (1:10:24): have that. Oh, I didn't have that.

Whitey (1:10:27): I don't think John Travolta has starred with Kurt Russell. And I don't think that Nick Cage has starred with Kurt Russell. Has he? I don't think so. No.

Unknown Speaker (1:10:37): 3,000 Miles to Graceland? No. That's Kevin Costner. That's Kevin don't know.

Unknown Speaker (1:10:44): Are they in a Vegas movie?

Unknown Speaker (1:10:46): Is that the one with the Elvises?

Unknown Speaker (1:10:48): Yeah. Eight pages in there?

Whitey (1:10:49): No. Okay. I'm sorry. I don't think it's anyone. If you can find someone

Unknown Speaker (1:10:54): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:10:54): Let us know. Send it through. Send it through.

Unknown Speaker (1:11:04): Film school for

Whitey (1:11:06): FWITZ. And I thought we'd focus on John Woo for this one because just in case you guys don't know the wooisms, we're gonna just go through it. But firstly, John Woo was born in Guangzhou or Guangzhou. Guangzhou. Guangzhou.

Whitey (1:11:27): You would know, Gao. In 1946, his family fled to Hong Kong during communist revolution when he was five. They were super poor, and they were effectively rendered hopeless by a massive fire in 1953. He grew up surrounded by real violence and poverty, but found escape in two places, the church and the cinema. Both would define everything he's ever put on screen as as you would attest to seeing this.

Whitey (1:11:56): His earliest film influences are pretty crazy. He's been described as a walking combination of Sam Peckinpa, John PM Melville, and Akira Kurosawa. But his real passion was MGM musicals. So he loved MGM musicals, which is, I think, one of the references is the kid is listening to Somewhere Over the Rainbow from Wizard

Unknown Speaker (1:12:18): of Oz. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitey (1:12:22): But so he also sort of choreographs his action sequences like a dance. So there's a lot of a lot of motion in his action sequences and yeah. A lot of motion. A lot of motion. His his early career was actually in comedies and kung fu films.

Whitey (1:12:38): He even gave Jackie Chan one of his first major roles. By the mid eighties, his career was dead in the water. He was considered a has been, but then he went on his massive run of those Chinese action films. Yeah. Charlie on fat.

Whitey (1:12:54): But here is the John Woo style guide. So here are some things that are unmistakably John Woo, and you will find in almost all his movies. Gun Fu or bullet ballet. Bullet ballet. I like that bullet ballet.

Whitey (1:13:10): Hong Kong audiences found standard gunfights boring compared to the popular wushu martial arts films of the time. Wu's response was to stylize gunfights and show individual skill and flare, essentially apply martial arts choreography to shootouts. He treated guns like swords and every firefight like a carefully staged fight scene as you can attest to seeing this. Guns akimbo, two fisted shooting. There's a lot of two fisted shooting in this movie.

Unknown Speaker (1:13:39): Cage. Well, he's got the

Whitey (1:13:39): two guns behind the back. Yeah. And Travolta does it as well. Yeah. He's considered the trope codifier of dual wielding pistols in modern action cinema.

Whitey (1:13:50): Chow Yun fat sliding across the floor with a pistol in each hand became one of the most iconic images in action movie history. Slo mo. Yeah. Not as a gimmick, as poetry. We'll use the slo mo the way a composer uses a rest in music.

Whitey (1:14:08): It lets you feel the weight of what's happening, Bullets, bodies, broken glass, or suspended in time.

Unknown Speaker (1:14:15): Right.

Whitey (1:14:16): Yeah. That's him. Mexican standoffs. His films frequently use two person point blank variant. Point where sometimes called to John Woo standoff, two men guns in each other's faces neither willing to blink.

Whitey (1:14:29): Face off has about 10 of these.

Gow (1:14:32): Well, when they jump behind the The mirrors. The mirrors and they look at each other, but they're a different face. They shoot.

Unknown Speaker (1:14:37): Yep. Yep. The doves

Gow (1:14:42): loves the doves. They they represent the the soul. They do. That's why he does it.

Whitey (1:14:45): Well, he's a devout Christian, and they symbol purity in the spirit. That's right. So pathetic. Themes of brotherhood and honor. Every Wu film is about two men generally, often on opposite sides of the law, hence the diametrically opposed Greek mythology.

Whitey (1:15:03): You recognize something noble in each other, coffin killer hero and villain. In face off, it's pretty much the extremes as we've as we've discussed. Operatic emotion, Ganny, you have discussed that about it being that. Wu describes himself as an action director who cares about people And noted he's never owned or shot a real gun. He hates violence in real life.

Whitey (1:15:26): The irony is that in violence on screen, he's so emotionally charged, it borders on melodrama, which is what this movie does. And that's by design. He wants you to feel it, not just watch it. Now without Wu, pardon me. Now without Wu, we probably don't get the matrix or we don't get kill bill.

Whitey (1:15:49): We don't get any of the stylized gunplay that modern cinema runs into, maybe like a John Wick, something like that. Tarantino once responded to a studio exec who said Woo could direct action scenes by saying sure and Michael O can paint.

Unknown Speaker (1:16:04): Michelo.

Whitey (1:16:05): And Michelangelo can paint ceilings.

Unknown Speaker (1:16:07): Yeah.

Whitey (1:16:08): Face off is the movie where Hollywood finally let John Woo be John Woo. Doves, dual pistols, Mexican standoffs, slow motion bullet ballet, the lot.

Gow (1:16:18): As I said to you earlier, he was given pretty much free rein. It's one of the only movies where the studio didn't involve it, so he kinda had his carte blanche.

Unknown Speaker (1:16:25): Well, he used all of his rueisms in the movie.

Unknown Speaker (1:16:28): Went full

Unknown Speaker (1:16:28): woo. Multiple. He went full woo. No. So you never go full woo.

Unknown Speaker (1:16:32): Never go full woo. He did. He did. He did. Well done.

Whitey (1:16:36): That's it for film school for f wits. Dan, that's how you do it. Short and sharp. Under five minutes. Film school.

Whitey (1:16:43): Nice work.

Unknown Speaker (1:16:43): I like that. Yeah. A lot lot of good stuff in there. A lot

Unknown Speaker (1:16:46): of good stuff in there. Kick ass credits. Oh, yes. Here we go. Song.

Whitey (1:17:01): And I am on the mic. I was telling Gao when he turned up tonight for recording that this could be the quickest kickass credits song writing that I've ever done. Probably took two two or three minutes to write this.

Gow (1:17:15): Two or three minutes to write in your wheelhouse.

Whitey (1:17:17): And not only that, actually, I may have prostituted a a bit of a tune from Morgues. So it's it's very this feels like it's a Dan kick ass credit song.

Unknown Speaker (1:17:26): Right. Okay.

Whitey (1:17:27): But I've written this about the movie, not about myself. Right. Yeah. So I'm not licking myself out like Dan tries to do in all of his kick ass credit songs. But here we go.

Whitey (1:17:36): It's just called simply face off.

Speaker 2 (1:17:42): Okay. Gotta try and remember now. Archer wins or so it seems. Cussatroy is dead. No.

Speaker 2 (1:17:49): He's having dreams. A bomb is set to blow the town. Only one chance left. They must steal his frown. A new operation only pure only performed on few.

Speaker 2 (1:17:58): You'll wake up in the morning and your face brand new. Face off. Alisa cuts around the edge. Face off. You wish Custer Trove is dead.

Speaker 2 (1:18:05): Face off. Arch is saving the day. Face off. What are you willing to pay? Custer wakes up from his deadly slumber, uses Arch's face.

Speaker 2 (1:18:13): Now he has his number. Face off. Thanks, mister John Woo. Face off. Two hours and eighty minutes of poo.

Speaker 2 (1:18:20): Face off. Can I just save all he loves? Face off.

Whitey (1:18:24): What's with all these fucking doves?

Unknown Speaker (1:18:26): Well done. Done. Two hours eighteen of poo.

Unknown Speaker (1:18:30): A spit lot on my screen. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:18:32): Lot of lot of good faith. I did that was like it's you get a get a repetitious was very porous in there, but that's good. I like that.

Unknown Speaker (1:18:39): It's very Morgz.

Unknown Speaker (1:18:40): Yeah.

Whitey (1:18:41): It's very Morgz. Okay. Well done to myself. Well done, myself. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:18:50): Star of the show.

Unknown Speaker (1:18:52): Without licking myself out. No. Hold on to me.

Unknown Speaker (1:18:55): G Man, star of the show. This is hard. This is very hard. Who you going with?

Unknown Speaker (1:19:01): Maybe I'll go with the guys that got best sound

Unknown Speaker (1:19:03): effects and. What about Margie's dad? What about Margie's dad?

Gow (1:19:09): Real Lazaro. I don't know. Lazaro. Let's cups a punch to the chest.

Whitey (1:19:13): Let let's who who can it be? It can't be Nick Cage. It be John Travolta.

Unknown Speaker (1:19:19): Completely overacted both of them. It can't be Joan Allen. It can't be Joan Allen.

Whitey (1:19:23): It can't be John Woo. Nope. I thought the daughter played a good role. Yeah. Dominique Swain.

Unknown Speaker (1:19:28): Dominique Swain was pretty good. She was pretty good. Gina Gershon is probably the best part of

Unknown Speaker (1:19:35): the movie. Yeah. She's not in it for for

Unknown Speaker (1:19:37): very long. But she's not in it for very long? It's it's really difficult. I don't

Unknown Speaker (1:19:39): go with Gina. I

Unknown Speaker (1:19:40): agree. Well, you know, she used to work on the docks. She's was Gina used to work on the docks. Gina used to work on the docks. Yeah.

Whitey (1:19:48): Union's been on strike. Stanley's luck. Last time. Yeah. Okay.

Unknown Speaker (1:19:52): I'll go with it. It's got a bit Tommy used to work on the dock. Tommy used to work. Gina worked on the all day. That's right.

Unknown Speaker (1:20:00): The rank bank.

Unknown Speaker (1:20:04): I've got a few here. I I might need some help from you, g man.

Unknown Speaker (1:20:08): Okay. You get yours first, and I'll I'll tell you what I'll do.

Whitey (1:20:11): Flying white church doves. Yep. Peaches. Yep. Golden guns.

Whitey (1:20:17): Yep. Ridiculous surgical procedures. Overacted pieces of shit.

Gow (1:20:25): I was thinking sucked tongues.

Unknown Speaker (1:20:27): Oh, yeah. That's a good one. That's it. That's it. Sucked tongues.

Whitey (1:20:34): One of the grossest scenes ever committed to celluloid. Suck your you suck my tongue. Oh, God. It was bad. He's got a big tongue too.

Whitey (1:20:42): Yeah. Yeah. It was a big tongue. It made me think of what's the the what's the movie where is it role models when they dress up as sing? But do they have a fake tongue?

Unknown Speaker (1:20:54): Oh, yeah. He does the Gene Simmons tongue.

Unknown Speaker (1:20:55): Does the Gene Simmons tongue?

Unknown Speaker (1:20:56): Yeah. Tongue out.

Whitey (1:20:58): Okay. So it is sucked tongues. So g man, how many sucked tongues are you giving face off? I don't I don't

Unknown Speaker (1:21:11): know what my lowest score in a movie is. It's prob it's probably not it's probably not the worst movie I've ever seen.

Unknown Speaker (1:21:18): Yeah. Yeah.

Gow (1:21:19): But it's it's not something I'm definitely gonna rewatch. I'm I'm just gonna go with two. Two. Okay.

Unknown Speaker (1:21:24): Two. Two. That's good. I like it, Gale. I didn't enjoy this movie.

Whitey (1:21:32): I'm not gonna watch it ever again.

Unknown Speaker (1:21:33): No. I won't be watching it ever again.

Whitey (1:21:35): It I didn't find it enjoyable. Now there's been some movies that we have done. Nico above the law, hard to kill, which I found to be bad movies, but there were some elements of it that I enjoyed in in each of those movies. This gets one point two five One point two five. Sucked tongues for me.

Whitey (1:21:57): I didn't enjoy it. Is this your lowest? No. It's not. I've had a zero.

Whitey (1:22:00): Oh, you've had a zero? I've had a zero. Rebel Moon two gets zero. I think Can't Buy Me Love got one. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:22:07): Can't Buy Me Love is worse than this.

Whitey (1:22:08): Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. So I I did I just I could have handled it if I had it. I just didn't enjoy it.

Whitey (1:22:16): So it's a 1.25 for me. Now, g, where does that put face off in the pantheon?

Unknown Speaker (1:22:24): Just typing in sucked tongues. That brings us out at 1.63. It's gonna be low. Sucked tongues, and I'm just going to flick the ratings up there. And I'm gonna have to go right to the bottom, I'm gonna say.

Gow (1:22:42): 1.63 suck tongues is right below 1.8 scissored pizza. Oh, Cobra. For Cobra.

Unknown Speaker (1:22:51): Cobra's a way better movie than this. Yeah. And Cobra was bad. I'd watch Cobra again.

Gow (1:22:56): And again, right above 1.57 Blood Banks for Hard to Kill. Yeah. 1.5 o Dump Rag Berets. So it is

Unknown Speaker (1:23:04): Can't buy me

Gow (1:23:05): love. It is one number one ninety on the list.

Unknown Speaker (1:23:08): Wow. That's low. She's low. Yep. She's not good.

Unknown Speaker (1:23:14): That's for sure. She's not good. No. No. No.

Whitey (1:23:19): Suck tongues are bad. I think it I think it sits right where it should. I'm not sure that by adding anyone else to

Gow (1:23:24): the mix tonight would have changed. I don't I don't think so. I mean, hard is that above hard to kill, cut by me, love, Niko above the law, American Ninja?

Unknown Speaker (1:23:33): That's tough. I think it's a better movie than American Ninja. No.

Gow (1:23:36): American Ninja is bad. Star Wars Last Jedi and Rebel Moon two. So there's still quite a few

Unknown Speaker (1:23:41): below it. There's a few, but but they're bad. They are bad. That's a that well, that's our

Unknown Speaker (1:23:47): first big blockbuster that's down there

Unknown Speaker (1:23:48): really, isn't Yeah. It's tragic.

Gow (1:23:50): I think Showgirls is a blockbuster. It's

Whitey (1:23:52): but I think at the time, I think it's the first movie that at the time Was big. Was big. Yeah. Like, American and I'm not like, American Ninja at the time we loved it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:24:05): But it was a small movie. Was a big run movie.

Unknown Speaker (1:24:07): It was always a crap movie. Was just because we're

Unknown Speaker (1:24:08): like ninjas.

Unknown Speaker (1:24:09): Right? Like

Unknown Speaker (1:24:10): Yeah. But this is was a big blockbuster, made a lot of money. Terrible. To be fair to John

Unknown Speaker (1:24:14): Woo, he probably doesn't care because he probably made a a million dollars off them. Absolutely. Absolutely. Good on him.

Whitey (1:24:20): Well, he went on to do got a Mission Impossible two Yeah. Did Mission Impossible. Which is the worst of the Mission Impossibles, and there has been eight of them. Yeah. So

Gow (1:24:28): So I didn't mind Mission Impossible two. Like, know, it's terrible.

Whitey (1:24:32): It's a it's a Tom Cruise calendar shoot. Yeah. And it's it's so John Woo. It's got dubs. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:24:39): It's got slimeos. Yeah. It's got everything that we spoke about in there. It's just not good. It's wooish.

Whitey (1:24:44): Hardboiled. Worth watching hardboiled. Tomplex. Okay. It's it's worth a watch.

Whitey (1:24:49): That's not bad. G man, that's it. You are off next week. You're you're

Gow (1:24:55): International. I'm going to going to Southeast Asia to

Unknown Speaker (1:24:58): You're going to Chong Kong.

Unknown Speaker (1:24:59): That's it. I am. And I'm just gonna, you know, see how what the fans are doing over there.

Whitey (1:25:03): I I'd like some feedback. I'm expecting a full 500 written essay about the insertion of Born to Watch into Thailand.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:12): Sure. Will do.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:13): Find out how deep we are.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:15): In Thailand? In Thailand. Inserted into Thailand. Yes.

Whitey (1:25:18): Find out how deep we are inserted into Thailand. It shouldn't take long. Mate, it's been great. I apologize for picking this movie.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:27): What's on next week, though, anyway?

Unknown Speaker (1:25:28): We're doing Forrest Gump. Oh, Forrest Gump. Movie. Doing Forrest Gump next week.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:33): I've Sam, I'm gonna miss that. It's a good movie.

Whitey (1:25:34): We we may have a special guest with us next week. Coming up soon, we've gotta cram a bit in before I go away. We're gonna do an eighties action movie draft, which will be a lot of fun. Okay. We might get an extended crew on for that.

Whitey (1:25:48): We got Creed Okay. Coming up.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:50): I think I've seen Creed. Creed?

Unknown Speaker (1:25:52): Is that the original? Rocky.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:54): Yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:55): Yeah. Creed? Yeah. The first one.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:56): The oh, you know, I have seen that.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:57): The Creed.

Unknown Speaker (1:25:57): Yeah. I don't think I've seen some of the

Whitey (1:25:59): ones up. Yeah. Creed two it's diminishing returns. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitey (1:26:02): That's what I because the first one is amazing. Yes. The two and three, not ideal. But we'll do Creed. We've got some good movies coming up.

Whitey (1:26:10): I mean, we're we're moving towards our fourth birthday celebration, which will be once upon a time in Hollywood.

Unknown Speaker (1:26:16): Yeah. We got a few of the crow, 6¢.

Unknown Speaker (1:26:18): Crow coming here, 6¢. Gale, we've been talking about the 6¢ for four years. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (1:26:21): It's

Unknown Speaker (1:26:22): great. So it'll be interesting to see if we can do that episode without giving away the twist.

Gow (1:26:28): We've probably given it away 10 times on this.

Whitey (1:26:30): I'm sure we have. I'm sure we have. Mate, have fun in Thailand, but not too much fun.

Unknown Speaker (1:26:35): Yeah. I'll

Unknown Speaker (1:26:35): It can be dangerous. Yeah. I'll I'll keep it keep it on the down low. Yeah. You do that.

Whitey (1:26:39): Do that. Block can happen in three days. Mate, see when you get back. People, don't forget, share to your friends, share to your enemies. It's good fun listening to us talk about all types of movies, even the shit ones like Face Off.

Whitey (1:26:52): But next week, go to Forrest Gump, which I think may divide opinions. That's a great soundtrack. Till next week. Bye. See

Unknown Speaker (1:28:53): What's with all the fucking doves?